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SARAH HANSEN: Could you
tell us a little bit

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about the history and
development of 18.065,

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this new course?

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GILBERT STRANG: Yes, OK.

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So this was my adventure into
the subject of deep learning.

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So that's a special part
of machine learning,

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a highly important part.

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It's in the newspaper
all the time.

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And students are graduating
knowing about the deep learning

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and getting good jobs.

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And it's really amazing.

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So and then the
other beautiful part

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is that it depends so
heavily on linear algebra.

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SARAH HANSEN: You've been known
to say, "I certainly learned

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that projects are far
better than exams.

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Students ask their own questions
and write their own programs.

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From now on, projects."

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GILBERT STRANG: That's right.

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Yeah.

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Sort of late to learn this
because with the 18.06

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linear algebra, totally
conventional course

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with maybe three exams during
the semester and a final exam.

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And maybe that's appropriate.

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But it's changing.

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And then with this new course,
where the computer's involved,

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and you--

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for example, so I ask
everybody to do a project.

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There is no final exam.

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Actually, there's
no exam at all.

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I shouldn't like to say this.

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But it's really what the subject
is is having an idea of how--

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OK, I'll use deep
learning for something.

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SARAH HANSEN: What did
that feel like to try

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something new pedagogically?

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GILBERT STRANG: Oh, it's fun.

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You know, I like teaching.

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And this is a subject
where students

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just come from everywhere.

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Because they know
what stuff to learn.

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And they've heard about it.

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And they-- some of
them know more than me.

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And then those students
write even better projects.

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Yeah, it's just-- so I do the
lectures for the first three

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quarters of the course.

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And then I try to
get them to present,

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which is a great
experience for them,

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though it takes a little
urging to get them.

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But, yeah, yeah, it's
really just wonderful.

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SARAH HANSEN: What
insights have you

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gained about having more
of a student-led course

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and a project-based course?

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Anything that other--

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GILBERT STRANG: You
realize, slowly but finally,

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that that's how people
learn, by doing.

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That you couldn't
give them a better way

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to learn than to
create a project.

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Usually, it's on some
topic they know about

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or they're interested
in, like, how do you

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find a criminal in
a bunch of people?

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Yeah, it's just a very
effective way to learn.

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And it's something that
gets remembered, where

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doing exam questions
that I might make up,

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sort of mathy questions,
I don't know if that's

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remembered 10 years later.

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But I think people's
projects are.

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SARAH HANSEN: Is there
anything you learned

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from teaching it this way?

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Like something that maybe
went wrong in the logistics

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of facilitating these
projects that next time you

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want to do differently?

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GILBERT STRANG: Well, sure.

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I didn't have any idea
what to expect really.

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And maybe the students
didn't either.

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They said, what's a project?

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Well, one student
had said unwisely,

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when are the projects due?

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I thought, what's that?

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I mean, I hadn't even
thought about projects.

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So I was like, OK.

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All right.

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You asked for it.

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So we decided that the last--

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the end of the
semester, the final day

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of class, which
is two weeks away,

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projects are due to come in.

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And then some of the class
is able, has a chance,

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to present their project in the
last weeks, but not everybody

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because it's a big class.

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So it starts with each
student or each group--

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it could be two or three
students together--

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sends me an email
about their plan.

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And I respond.

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I usually respond, wonderful.

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And maybe I have an idea
of a reference or two

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that they could look at.

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But and then they just do it.

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Yeah, it's really very nice.

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SARAH HANSEN: Do you give them
any feedback along the way?

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GILBERT STRANG: If
they ask for it, yeah.

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And if I-- you know,
usually they'll

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know more about their
subject than me.

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But maybe what they
learn also is presenting.

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That's an important thing.

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So it's really just more--

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it's richer than taking an exam.

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Well, the viewer may
think, OK, Professor Strang

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says no more exams.

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I don't know if--

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so don't quote me
on that, please.

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SARAH HANSEN: OK.

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In 18.065, in one
of the videos, you

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talk about grading
students' work.

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And you tell them
that, although this

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is important to
grade their work,

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it's not your main concern.

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That your main concern is
actually learning with them.

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GILBERT STRANG: Right.

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This is what I want
to say the most.

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And I say it to
every class I teach

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near the start of the semester.

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My feeling about what my job
is is to teach you things

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or to join with you in learning
things, as has happened today.

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It's not to grade you.

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So typically, the first few
days of class, these guys

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ask, you know, what's the
class average going to be?

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How are we going to be graded?

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I don't have any
answers for that stuff.

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So I say what is totally
true, that I'm not--

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I don't feel my main
job is to grade them.

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That my job is to teach
them or learn with them.

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And that's what
I continue to do.

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And gradually, they
begin to believe.

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You know, at the beginning,
they still think, OK, but he's

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got to give me a
B, or a C, or an A.

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But really, that's not what
18.065 is about, a grade.

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It's just not.

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SARAH HANSEN: What advice do
you have for new professors

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starting out in teaching?

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GILBERT STRANG: Well,
probably this interview

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has expressed most
of the thoughts

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I have about in the class.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Use big chalk, especially
if it's a large class.

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It helps your writing get--

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your writing looks
impressively level, even,

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because of the chalk.

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And don't rush.

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And don't think you have
to cover everything.

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Just stay with the class.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, so again, it's
the best job possible.